Posts by Sea Breeze

18

Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

Sea Breeze

No takers in trying to explain away the minimum facts surrounding the resurrection?

C'mon Barbara, this is your thread. Care to take a stab at it?

The Resurrection is the most documented event in the ancient world. It changed the world more than any other event. The entire world counts time from the birth of this man. Without the Resurrection, there is no reason why all (but one) of his disciples (as eyewitnesses, not just believers) chose to suffer a brutal death rather than deny Jesus. No one dies for a lie. There is no other explanation for the growth of the Christian church.

I believe that even Caesar confirmed the Resurrection. Tomb robbers take valuables from tombs... not stinking rotten bodies, or bones. But Ceasar issued an unusual type of edit (The Nazareth Inscription) reserved for special problems to make it illegal to steal bodies from tombs shortly after the Resurrection. Wow!

He affirmed the most important event in history. He just didn’t mean to do it - Article

Even Caesar Confirmed the Resurrection

18

Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

Sea Breeze

"I will find a way around your system so as I may use the New Testament to prove the resurrection of Christ."

TBK, I don't recall this quote. Do you have a time stamp for it?

Scholars, both skeptic and believer use the bible all the time, they just use it critically in scholarly circles. They usually don't outright reject it or believe it, but use it critically according to historical criteria and apparatus. The bottom line is that Dr. Habermas claims 90 -95% of all scholars (who publish in this area) believe 6 of the below points and about 75% believe the other 6 points. So these 12 points make up the minimum facts that most scholars (skeptic, atheist, agnostic and otherwise) believe about the Resurrection.

Jesus died by Roman crucifixion.
He was buried, most likely in a private tomb.
Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved, and despondent, having lost hope.
Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his interment.
The disciples had experiences that they believed were actual appearances of the risen Jesus.
Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed, even being willing to die for this belief.
The proclamation of the resurrection took place very early, at the beginning of church history.
The disciples’ public testimony and preaching of the resurrection took place in the city of Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried shortly before.
The Gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Sunday was the primary day for gathering and worshipping.
James, the brother of Jesus and former skeptic, was converted when, he believed, he saw the risen Jesus.
Just a few years later, Saul of Tarsus (Paul) became a Christian believer due to an experience that he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.”

It is very difficult to come up with alternative plausible explanations for these minimal facts. Take for instance just one: # 10

What would it take for tens of thousands of orthodox Jews to stop making Saturday their Holy Day, and change it to Sunday? Keep in mind that they would be shunned by family and friends every bit as harshly as we have been at the behest of the WT.

Orthodox Jews don't change, history has taught us that. Only they did - right in the heart of Jerusalem!

A real resurrection is a plausible explanation for this fact that skeptic scholars agree on. The other 11 are hard to explain away as well. Got ahead, try.... its no so easy.

As for the other people on Barbara's list..... well they are all dead. Why would I want to listen to or follow a dead guy? But a guy who is still alive after being put to death, well that's someone worth listening to. Not as easy to dismiss.

15

Another example of how Watchtower are rewriting their own history.

by skin in

from today's daily wt text.. friday, december 31 2021.let your kingdom come.

let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.—matt.

6:10. christendom generally does not teach the scriptural truth that one day obedient humans will live forever on earth.

Sea Breeze

That WT article is very misleading. Christians have always believed in the paradise earth..... they just didn't call it that. They call it the Millennium Reign. This one hundred year old chart from a Baptist pastor illustrates.

After Augustine, the Roman Church allegorized the Millennium reign. But aside from that, Christ's Millennium Reign on earth for 1000 years has been bedrock Christian doctrine since the beginning.

141

My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

by Sea Breeze in

a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

Sea Breeze

"Given the fact that the mechanism of "seeing" into the past is via the extreme red shift of the most distant galaxies, I'd say that's [seeing early fully formed stars and spiral galaxies] probably a pretty safe bet."

What you are calling a "safe bet" is my prediction from a Creation perspective. This is not what the big bang scientists at NASA are expecting.

That's why they have been "surprised" and will continue to be surprised by early fully formed mature looking galaxies.

"This means all telescopes view objects not as they are, but as they once were — in some cases millions or even billions of years ago. Because of Webb's sensitivity, it will be able to see all the way back to a time when the first galaxies were forming after the Big Bang, which took place about 13.8 billion years ago." - Article

This NASA website says this:

"Webb will be able to see back to about 100 million - 250 million years after the Big Bang. "

There is nothing poetic about it. If you think NASA is wrong, then you should let them know. If these images of the early universe come back with fully formed mature looking galaxies.... and scientists are again 'surprised" at how fast galaxies supposedly formed.... as I predict they will be; then this fits a Creation Model, not a Big Bang Model.

You are attempting to hijack my prediction, and say that observing fully formed spiral galaxies close to the time of the BB is a safe bet. It is a safe bet only from a literal biblical creation model.

The BB model presupposes stars slowly getting together over billions of years and assembling themselves into beautiful spiral galaxies.

141

My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

by Sea Breeze in

a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

Sea Breeze

TD,

With all due respect. You haven't explained anything. Here is a NASA image that explains big bang predictions:

Notice how the big bang predicts stars and galaxies being formed long after the "big bang". This NASA website says this:

Webb will be able to see back to about 100 million - 250 million years after the Big Bang. But why do we need to see infrared light to understand the early universe? Because light from these objects is shifted to the red.

NASA expects to "see" the universe as it was 100 million years ago or so with this new telescope. This is a fact. You cannot change this fact. Your references to red-shift cannot change this fact. I have proved this with numerous references from NASA to show this. But, you are not receiving it.

If you think what NASA is trying to do is impossible because of red-shift, you should call them right away and explain it to them so they can stop misleading the public about being able to see an early universe.

Notice this Q & A from NASA Official: Phil Newman

Question:

When did the first stars form in the universe?

Answer:

"Results from NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) released in February 2003 show that the first stars formed when the universe was only about 200 million years old. Observations by WMAP also revealed that the universe is currently about 13. 7 billion years old. So it was very early in the time after the Big Bang explosion that stars formed....This result surprised many scientists who thought that it would have taken much longer for gravity to pull enough matter together to make a star."

18

Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

Sea Breeze

PP:

I think your misunderstood me. I didn't say he was an atheist. Bart Ehrman is characterized as being "agnostic leaning toward atheist" by Dr. Habermas on the video I linked to above. So, that is how I characterized him.

As a side note: the world's most famous atheist characterizes himself as an agnostic when pressed - Richard Dawkins.

Richard Dawkins publicly argued for the position of militant atheism and claimed that he will not feel anything after death (see also: Ex-atheists).[6][7][8] Despite arguing for the position of militant atheism previously, Dawkins told the Archbishop Dr. Rowan Williams that he never said was an atheist.[9][10][11] See also: Atheism and historical revisionism

18

Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

Sea Breeze

Hi Barbara,

This author recently wrote an article titled "5 historical truths that suggest Jesus never existed". She's a psychologist.

It looks like this author is just another radical anti-theist who has jumped onto the band-wagon of Mysticism. Bart Ehrmann, who is currently the world's top atheist-leaning bible critic, says that such a view makes proponents of these kinds of myths (the myth that denies Jesus' existence) " look foolish to the outside world."

He cautions his atheist friends to not go down this road:

https://www.str.org/w/bart-ehrman-on-the-existence-of-jesus

On the other hand, modern scholarship on Jesus and the Resurrection, has been moving in the opposite direction in the past 35 years as Dr. Habermas explains here at the University of California Santa Barbara:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOW7k3hQ-vE&ab_channel=FallenEmbers

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

Sea Breeze

Doesn't look like "vienne" wants to disclose the issuing institution & dissertations from "mother and uncle B."

141

My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

by Sea Breeze in

a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

Sea Breeze

Waton:

"SB: yeah just thinking, we are catching the balls or photons that were thrown that long ago. "

Think about this: If light only travelled as photons (particles) then in order for our eye receptors to catch them from billions of light yeas away, we might have to jump around from say Arizona to New York just to catch a couple of them from so far away.

Think of a shotgun blast where the BBs infinitely travel in a larger and larger pattern, but the BB's (photons) are all getting father and farther away from each other making it harder and harder to catch them on our retina.

But, that is not how light works. It is far more interesting than that.

Now think of a circular pond where you chunk a pebble into the middle. The waves generated from the pebble form concentric circles which will eventually reach every point of the shore of the pond..... because it is a wave.

So what light does is this: it travels as an immaterial probability information wave because it is a far more efficient vehicle. But then, upon observation of the wave, the wave collapses into particles (photons) that can be picked up by the retina of your eye. In other words, you don't have to jump around from Arizona to New York just to catch a photon or two.

The 100 year old "two slit experiment" proves all this as fact. Google it and watch some amazing videos.

Pretty cool huh?

It certainly appears that the universe was meant to be observed.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. - Ps. 19: 1

141

My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

by Sea Breeze in

a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

Sea Breeze

TD,

You should contact NASA right away and let them know about your theory about how Red Shift will prohibit them from observing galaxies being formed. Because this is exactly why they spent 10 billion dollars. This is what the Big Bang predicts.

"This means all telescopes view objects not as they are, but as they once were — in some cases millions or even billions of years ago. Because of Webb's sensitivity, it will be able to see all the way back to a time when the first galaxies were forming after the Big Bang, which took place about 13.8 billion years ago." - Article